On Podcasting

Oct 11, 2024

Being the 40th edition of Assorted Nonsense, the official newsletter of Donovan Street Press Inc.

This week Mark A. Rayner and I recorded the 60th episode of our podcast Re-Creative.

black and silver microphone with stand — An SM7B! Mark and I both use this terrific microphone. (At least, when we think to apply the correct settings everywhere.) Photo by Jukka Aalho on Unsplash

I think it was inevitable that I would wind up producing a podcast. I’ve been working with audio professionally since the age of 16. I spent the first 19 years of my career at the CBC working with audio, first as an audio technician on all the shows you’re familiar with and then as a Recording Engineer with the CBC Radio Drama department. I never wanted to lose those skills so over the years I’ve accumulated basic audio equipment and kept my hand in on projects such as turning my novel A Time and a Place into an audiobook.

But I didn’t want to produce a podcast until I’d figured out a good hook. And I didn’t want it to be something that took forever to produce. For instance, I would love to do a version of the science fiction radio show I once attempted to produce for CBC Radio, Faster Than Light (hosted by Robert J. Sawyer) but as much fun as that would be, it would basically be a full time job.

Nor did I want it to be a straight up interview show. I’ve worked on many of those, such as Writers & Company, The Arts Tonight, Q etc., and they’re great but I didn’t want to talk to guests just about themselves.

And then one day I hit upon the idea of talking to creative people about books that they like. This quickly evolved into talking to writers, musicians, actors, painters, poets, potters, sculptors and so on about what art inspires them and informs their own work. My co-host Mark and I thought that this would make for more interesting conversations and might actually encourage artists to come forward with subjects they were excited to talk about. You know, you can approach someone and say, “Hey, do you want to be on my podcast and talk about yourself and your work?” and there will be people looking for the exposure who might say yes, but there’s others who aren’t so keen on the idea (they’ve already been interviewed a million times) until you give them permission to talk about something other than themselves that they’re actually passionate about.

(As an aside, after a conversation with author John Scalzi on the show, he admitted that he was getting pretty sick of the sound of his own voice, having done so many interviews.)

So that was the idea.

But one thing about me is I really don’t like to do things alone. I don’t know why this is; Sigmund Freud could probably explain it to me (or make up some plausible explanation) but I suspect it’s twofold: I like to have someone to bounce ideas off; also, it’s just more fun when other people are involved.

It didn’t take me long to identify the perfect co-host: Marisa Tomei.

But she was busy so I quickly pivoted to someone even MORE perfect (and almost as attractive): Mark A. Rayner.

Mark was top of mind because he’d been sending newsletters on a fairly regular basis (authors, keep up those newlsetters! You just never know when your newsletter might pay off in some weird way). I always enjoyed Mark’s newsletters cuz they’re personable and interesting and often funny. And they reminded me how fun Mark is.

I had met Mark at Torcon in 2002 and we hit it off right away. Then I attended Anticipation in Montreal in 2007 with my friend Fergus Heywood and lo and behold who should be there but Mark and his brother Mike. They were having breakfast at a table nearby at the hotel and we got to talking. Fergus and I wound up spending every evening of the convention with them (and Annette Mocek, formerly of the Merrill Collection at the Toronto Public Library). The ensuing conversations were always so brilliant and funny that ,with Mark being top of mind due to his newsletters, I immediately thought of him for the podcast.

So on April 12th, 2022, I emailed Mark:

Hey Mark,
Do you have any appetite to do a podcast? Especially one where you didn't really have to do any work other than show up once a week, and maybe help track down guests?
I've been mulling this idea around for a while. The idea would be to create a platform, kinda like Ed Willet has done, to create visibility for ourselves, our books, but at the same time have fun, meet new people, discuss interesting ideas.
What I was thinking was you and I host, we invite interesting people on with one book in mind that they want to talk about. Any book at all, doesn't have to be SF. And then the three of us (or more) just talk, starting with that book, but also about whatever that book propels us to talk about. In this way we can talk about books, but also about philosophy, world events, or just whatever comes into our heads. I would hope for a heady brew of insights and laughter, stupidity and mind boggling intelligence, with everything in between.
I would do all the technical work.
I figure we wouldn't monetize it. We'd just promote our work on the side, build our profile.
It would be quite a commitment, as I'd want to get a bunch in the can and then keep it going long enough to build an audience. But certainly no more than the next twenty or thirty years. :-)
What do you think?
Joe

To which Mark replied:

Twenty or thirty years? Do you promise?
Seriously, this sounds like good fun.

Only later did I learn that Mark actually had plenty of professional radio experience, for both the CBC and for Czech National Radio's English language service. And he’d been waiting for such an opportunity.

In his words:

When you contacted me, I was so excited. I felt like I was waiting for your email -- I'd been wanting to do a podcast for ages, but I knew the work involved, as I'd podcast my second book, Marvellous Hairy.

Many emails and conversations ensued. We spent quite some time coming up with a name before settling on Re-Creative. I consulted my old friend, podcast guru Dan Misener, who provided some great tips. We did the first couple of episodes ourselves to work the bugs out before inviting author Douglas Smith on to be our first guest. That worked out great and we haven’t looked back since then.

Mark and I both approach potential guests. Once in a blue moon I’ll invite someone who expresses initial interest only to go silent when I ask them to get back to me with the art they’d like to champion. I generally don’t pester these people because the fact is securing guests hasn’t been a problem. In fact, right now we’re pretty much booked up until Christmas. More often than not we are approached by people pitching us. Lately it’s been publicists pitching us. Sometimes the publicists and the people they represent are not quite clear on the concept, but usually when I explain it to them I find they’re willing to play ball and this has resulted in many fascinating conversations.

Although we’ve had some well-known guests, we don’t care if our guests are famous. We’re actually just as interested in helping provide exposure to creative folk who could use the help. Or people who are just plain interesting. And although initially we conceived of the podcast as a way to increase exposure for ourselves and maybe help sell a book or two, after recording 60 plus episodes I can say with some certainty that it’s not a great way to sell books. I can only trace the sale of one of my books directly to the podcast, and it was purchased by a guest, not a listener.

Podcast metrics are notoriously difficult to ascertain with any certainty but according the data I can access we appear to have been downloaded at least 5.1K times in over 43 different countries. A well-known guest might garner close to 500 downloads within a week of being published; lesser known folks anywhere between 60 to 100 downloads. Much depends on how well the guest themselves is able to promote their episode. We do not advertise beyond the usual social media; nor is Re-Creative monetized in any way.

The shades of blue indicate all the various counties in which Re-Creative has been streamed around the world. I don’t know what Greenland has against us.

Re-Creative has become an end in itself. It’s just plain fun. Mark and I love the conversations we have with our guests, the art we learn about (my “to be read/watched” book/movie pile has grown enormously), and the relationships we’ve forged (and continue to forge) through the podcast.

I hope you see fit to check it out if you haven’t already. It’s available via Spotify, iTunes, Zencastr, our website, Castro, Podfriend, Castbox, Overcast, YouTube, and so on. And if you’d like to be a guest on Re-Creative, we’d be only to happy to hear your pitch. What art inspires your work that you’d like to share with the world?

You can check out our guidelines here:

Re-Creative Guidelines

Mark and I were especially pleased this week to welcome television and film veteran Tony Schwartz to the podcast. Tony makes a compelling case for why everyone should watch the television show The Wire.

Tony shares some great stories about working as first assistant director and line producer on productions like Freaks and Geeks, Firefly and Terminator 3 (as well as many others). He talks about the pain of working on such great shows only to have them succumb to the whims of how the industry sometimes works.

As for The Wire, Tony says, "It has often been described as the greatest show that nobody saw."

In fact, Tony makes his case so well that Mark wound up buying the complete DVD collection while we were still recording this episode!

Tony Schwartz on Re-Creative

Future episodes of Re-Creative will feature Robert Runte, Evan Gary Hirsch and his creative partner Kip Baldwin, Christopher Guerin, Cathy Bond, and plenty more.

All previous episodes are available online, comprising the first 2 seasons, over 50 conversations with creative people from all walks of life about the art stoking their imaginative fires.

In Other News…

Okay, this screenshot may not be the most flattering photo of us all, but it’s significant in that it represents what Mark Rayner calls Donovan Street Press’s “first class.” That’s not entirely accurate, as the actual “first class” of Donovan Street Press would have to include my father, whose book The Deer Yard was the first book (other than my own) published by Donovan Street Press Inc.

But this photo is significant in that it captures a moment in the first ever group chat held by Donovan Street Press, and it includes the first three authors contracted to publish books with DSP Inc. Mark A. Rayner, Matt Watts, and Tanah Haney. Also included are Yours Truly and DSP Inc.’s business manager, Jenn DeLagran.